Author Topic: Honest Concerns  (Read 5971 times)

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Offline Assan

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2015, 06:22:26 pm »
Thank you Casey
Thank you, but I am just trying to help get people through this in a way that is beneficial for everyone involved.


Thank you Tav
Thank you for reiterating what I said and contributing to the topic, we need more people, even if they repeat things that have already been said speaking up.


Than you Xantera
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2015, 06:23:05 pm »
I think from what's going on, I think the mods are going to take this as a lesson and hopefully improve upon this.

I'd have to give props to this. At least they're taking it in their hands and owning it rather running away from it. That just shows how there is a lot of empathy towards others from the staff.

Offline Flint The Wolf

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2015, 06:25:26 pm »
I don't want people to think I'm demonizing you or anyone else on the site. I myself don't believe it's right to judge someone's character on one or two situations. The thing is though, if the only qualification to become a staff member was that you had to be a nice person, then plenty of people would qualify. You also have to be a trustworthy leader who can prove yourself to be a positive force within the community and someone people can go to if they have a problem, and frankly, all of the things I brought up are reasons why I don't think most of the staff is worth trusting with that responsibility. If I were still an active member, I would never go to the staff with a problem, and I would frankly have quite a few problems interacting with staff members at all, even publicly on the forum itself. It's almost like being a police officer, in a way. You can be a good person and do the non-social part of your job to the best of your abilities, but if the people you're protecting don't trust you, then you're not doing your job correctly. It's a very difficult situation, and I understand that, but there's nothing wrong with not being able to keep up with that responsibility as long as you choose not to take it on. If you do choose to take it on, however, then you will be expected to fulfill it, and frankly, I believe the staff members involved have failed in that regard.
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2015, 06:25:39 pm »
Thank you for your input, everyone.

If its not clear by now, you're not going to get in trouble for contributing to this.
I think something like this has been a long time coming, so please speak up with any concerns
(And any suggestions on improvements, although I know this isn't an easily-fixed situation)

I don't want people to think I'm demonizing you or anyone else on the site. I myself don't believe it's right to judge someone's character on one or two situations. The thing is though, if the only qualification to become a staff member was that you had to be a nice person, then plenty of people would qualify. You also have to be a trustworthy leader who can prove yourself to be a positive force within the community and someone people can go to if they have a problem, and frankly, all of the things I brought up are reasons why I don't think most of the staff is worth trusting with that responsibility. If I were still an active member, I would never go to the staff with a problem, and I would frankly have quite a few problems interacting with staff members at all, even publicly on the forum itself. It's almost like being a police officer, in a way. You can be a good person and do the non-social part of your job to the best of your abilities, but if the people you're protecting don't trust you, then you're not doing your job correctly. It's a very difficult situation, and I understand that, but there's nothing wrong with not being able to keep up with that responsibility as long as you choose not to take it on. If you do choose to take it on, however, then you will be expected to fulfill it, and frankly, I believe the staff members involved have failed in that regard.

I agree with this reasoning completely.
But I do also think its not impossible for this to be repaired.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 06:32:10 pm by Icee »
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Offline STERLING

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2015, 06:32:03 pm »
Maybe stricter rules for mods to follow?
For example no talking negatively about members behind their back, positive role model, etc.
Also maybe a strike system for offenses of staff members?

Adding onto what Panda said about this not being impossible to fix, I think a little bit of faith and a second chance can go a long way.
Maybe step into their shoes, wouldn't you like a second chance?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 06:34:03 pm by Xantera »

Offline Assan

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2015, 06:34:32 pm »
Maybe this system needs to be made more public if there already is one?


(Thank you, you four for your input) Now any more ideas, do you think one here is good, bad, ect?
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2015, 06:34:41 pm »
Maybe stricter rules for mods to follow?
For example no talking negatively about members behind their back, positive role model, etc.
Also maybe a strike system for offenses of staff members?

The rules are actually what we overhauled shortly after this occurred. We now have a pretty strict policy about talking negatively about members. I've also been meaning to re-do the staff application/what's expected of staff thread.

A strike system could work. But that also relies on users coming to us with concerns about staff members, which is going to be a problem now, like Flint said.
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Offline STERLING

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2015, 06:35:36 pm »
Maybe stricter rules for mods to follow?
For example no talking negatively about members behind their back, positive role model, etc.
Also maybe a strike system for offenses of staff members?

The rules are actually what we overhauled shortly after this occurred. We now have a pretty strict policy about talking negatively about members. I've also been meaning to re-do the staff application/what's expected of staff thread.

A strike system could work. But that also relies on users coming to us with concerns about staff members, which is going to be a problem now, like Flint said.

Gotta start somewhere right?
I think it's a fair compromise.

Offline Flint The Wolf

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2015, 06:48:40 pm »
While I still believe that terminating those involved would be the best option, changing the rules would have to be a natural consequence of this, regardless of who stay or goes. I frankly believe that allowing the site to police itself as well as the staff to a degree would be the best approach to take. Personally, I feel that allowing users to publicly make complaints about staff (as long as they're reasonable and have conclusive evidence to back them up) would be the best way to accomplish this. This thread actually managed to create some change and start a discussion, so I believe that other threads addressing complaints could do the same. I know that this could potentially create a rift between users and some staff members, but this would put things into a position where everyone would be encouraged to address and fix the problem. As long as a mutual understanding is reached that the members would be judging the staff for their abilities as a staff member and not who they are personally, I feel that such a solution would be very helpful.
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Offline STERLING

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2015, 06:51:05 pm »
Going in as a mod, you should expect that all eyes are on you and that you are held at a higher standard than others.

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2015, 06:57:28 pm »
I feel that something else we must do is make it clear that we're all aware of what we have done and that we're all commiting to listen to ideas, suggestions, criticism, etc. And work hard to achieve the change we all want. I also apologize in my behalf for this incident and I want to specially apologize to those who were affected. Even if, as stated, an apology is just an empty promise, it is a start where we can make a something significant become true.
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2015, 06:59:17 pm »
I don't know what to say about a lot of this because for me honestly this is the first time I'm hearing a lot of this. I'm glad that this has been posted and I wish there had been more communication before this. For people like me who don't talk to too many people on this site it's really easy to get out of the loop so I do think there needs to be more public discussion of these issues. This board is already a great start.

As for past problems with staff I do think that they'll be able to make up for these past problems and I personally think Icee and Daimhin do a great job on the site despite past problems, everyone makes mistakes. The newer mods that also weren't involved in any of this are fine to but there are a few mods that rarely post so I really can't say if I think they've changed or not.

It's difficult for me to comment on a lot if this stuff being so out of the loop so again better communication is really something that needs to happen.

I do like the idea of a stricter system for mods, I don't think they should be insulting members but they also deserve their own personal lives off of this site without being monitered.
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2015, 07:00:13 pm »
Personally, I feel that allowing users to publicly make complaints about staff (as long as they're reasonable and have conclusive evidence to back them up) would be the best way to accomplish this. This thread actually managed to create some change and start a discussion, so I believe that other threads addressing complaints could do the same. I know that this could potentially create a rift between users and some staff members, but this would put things into a position where everyone would be encouraged to address and fix the problem. As long as a mutual understanding is reached that the members would be judging the staff for their abilities as a staff member and not who they are personally, I feel that such a solution would be very helpful.

This seems like an alright compromise. Obviously it will need to be discussed amongst staff beforehand
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2015, 07:03:11 pm »
Personally, I feel that allowing users to publicly make complaints about staff (as long as they're reasonable and have conclusive evidence to back them up) would be the best way to accomplish this. This thread actually managed to create some change and start a discussion, so I believe that other threads addressing complaints could do the same. I know that this could potentially create a rift between users and some staff members, but this would put things into a position where everyone would be encouraged to address and fix the problem. As long as a mutual understanding is reached that the members would be judging the staff for their abilities as a staff member and not who they are personally, I feel that such a solution would be very helpful.

This seems like an alright compromise. Obviously it will need to be discussed amongst staff beforehand

Perhaps a subsection within the site specific board that is only viewable to registered members would be a good way to do this.
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2015, 07:04:56 pm »
Personally, I feel that allowing users to publicly make complaints about staff (as long as they're reasonable and have conclusive evidence to back them up) would be the best way to accomplish this. This thread actually managed to create some change and start a discussion, so I believe that other threads addressing complaints could do the same. I know that this could potentially create a rift between users and some staff members, but this would put things into a position where everyone would be encouraged to address and fix the problem. As long as a mutual understanding is reached that the members would be judging the staff for their abilities as a staff member and not who they are personally, I feel that such a solution would be very helpful.

This seems like an alright compromise. Obviously it will need to be discussed amongst staff beforehand

Perhaps a subsection within the site specific board that is only viewable to registered members would be a good way to do this.

Yes! I was about to say, it would have to be only viewable to members if this were to happen.
Thank you for thinking of that  :blush-fox:
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2015, 07:10:31 pm »
Personally, I feel that allowing users to publicly make complaints about staff (as long as they're reasonable and have conclusive evidence to back them up) would be the best way to accomplish this. This thread actually managed to create some change and start a discussion, so I believe that other threads addressing complaints could do the same. I know that this could potentially create a rift between users and some staff members, but this would put things into a position where everyone would be encouraged to address and fix the problem. As long as a mutual understanding is reached that the members would be judging the staff for their abilities as a staff member and not who they are personally, I feel that such a solution would be very helpful.

This seems like an alright compromise. Obviously it will need to be discussed amongst staff beforehand

Perhaps a subsection within the site specific board that is only viewable to registered members would be a good way to do this.

Yes! I was about to say, it would have to be only viewable to members if this were to happen.
Thank you for thinking of that  :blush-fox:
I'd support that if it made it easier for people to express their problems to us, whether it's about us or the site in general.
But the guidelines should probably be discussed first.
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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2015, 07:10:38 pm »
I think the members having more say in problems is a great idea. This site is just as much of a home to any of you as it is to the staff so your voices should all be heard too. I've seen many great ideas come from members that weren't acted on because they didn't have the ability to do so. If we work together and everyone has a voice it should break down some of those barriers and get everyone involved. An anonymous report system might be a good opinion to add to, that way people can report issues they're having without having to worry about other knowing it was them

As for the original issues those logs should have never been used. Private conversations should remain private. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and should be allowed to express them with friends offsite. Even public sites such as Twitter shouldn't be monitored or used in disciplinary action on the forum unless a member is feeling they're being bullied or harassed (with proof)

I am deeply sorry along with the rest of the staff. We seriously messed up on this one. Trust is not an easy thing to fix. I don't excpet any of you to trust us again anytime soon but i do hope you'll give us another chance
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 07:27:48 pm by MysticSolstice »
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Offline Malifor

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2015, 07:22:41 pm »
I think the members having more say in problems is a great idea. This site is just as much of a home to any of you as it is to the staff so your voices should all be heard too. -snip- If we work together and everyone has a voice it should break down some of those barriers and get everyone involved
I'm with this. Honestly it is a bit pain staking just for us to deal with all and most problems alone.
Like what Flint said, perhaps I'm on borad when we start or members could start a thread within the Site Specific board to address any problems and or concerns that anyone has. Instead of passing around pms that talk about general complaints and issues among all members secretly.

Offline Flint The Wolf

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2015, 07:35:08 pm »
I think the members having more say in problems is a great idea. This site is just as much of a home to any of you as it is to the staff so your voices should all be heard too. -snip- If we work together and everyone has a voice it should break down some of those barriers and get everyone involved
I'm with this. Honestly it is a bit pain staking just for us to deal with all and most problems alone.
Like what Flint said, perhaps I'm on borad when we start or members could start a thread within the Site Specific board to address any problems and or concerns that anyone has. Instead of passing around pms that talk about general complaints and issues among all members secretly.

It's good to see that people like the idea :3 I feel that if we can create a better feeling of transparency between site and staff in terms of disciplinary actions, site suggestions, and current affairs relating to Furry Teens, that it would make the site better as a whole. Heck, I might actually come back if that's the case; it would make relations between site and staff much smoother, and would make it seem like both sides are there for each other. I'd totally be up for it being a subsection in the Site-Specific board or possibly a pinned thread or small group of threads if that would be possible.
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Offline Malifor

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Re: Honest Concerns
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2015, 07:43:05 pm »
I feel that if we can create a better feeling of transparency between site and staff in terms of disciplinary actions, site suggestions, and current affairs relating to Furry Teens
Not really so about the disciplinary action part, like members to staff. Or it'll be like a riot and that wouldn't be right. Of course, us staff members could do that ourselves. A one on one serious talk with a higher staff is often the case and happens quite often. (Whether you believe it or not) Although I'm not objecting about any other idea there.