Author Topic: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts [Updated 4/20]  (Read 6046 times)

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Offline ★Panda★

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One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts [Updated 4/20]
« on: September 23, 2015, 09:56:14 pm »
Heya everyone!

To address the recent trend of deragatory remarks and debates, we are proposing a one-strike rule. Basically, this will entail a user getting one official Warning regarding homophobic/transphobic, racist, etc. remarks. If the behavior continues, a minimum 2-week ban will be issued (length, including perma-ban, will depend on the circumstances).

Because this issue affects YOU most of all, we've decided to let you guys provide input. Included is a poll to let us know whether you think this would be effective or not, and this thread will stay open for discussion. The poll is set to run a week but can go longer if discussion runs longer.

Some further specifics about the policy:
  • NEW: All discussion of Furry Raiders, "alt right", and general pro-Nazi speak falls under this rule.
  • This will include all anti-LGBT+ remarks; aka, religious-based bashing will no longer be allowed. Everyone is still free to have their faith & post faith-based things, but we will NOT accept it as an excuse to belittle others. Saying "I believe all gays will go to hell" or "the bible speaks against transgender people", no matter how respectfully said, will incur a Warning. Many LGBT+ individuals already face religious persecution in their real life--they don't need it on the internet as well.
  • Following that, any [specific] anti-religious statements will incur a Warning as well. Hopefully with this new system, there will be no more need to start flame wars regarding the intolerance of one's faith. Ranting/posting about personal experiences will be allowed, as always; but attacking someone because of their religion will not.
  • This will include PMs, provided the "report PM" button is used.
  • If a member is perma-banned for inappropriate remarks, they have the option to appeal the ban & it will be considered, depending on the circumstance. We believe in change and guiding people onto the right path, even if that means working with them closely until they're allowed back. This has always been our policy.

---

Thank you for reading, and please be sure to provide your input!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 12:00:07 pm by Panda »
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2015, 10:45:37 pm »
In complete honesty, as wonderful as this may sound I can forsee it being abused. There's alot of ways that people can twist something someone says into being anti-lgbtq. For example, posts have been removed simply stating negativities in the lgbt community, with no intent to bash or harm members of said community. I don't think that's fair and I beleive we need to work out what can and can't be considered bashing because, as religion is a major part of what does bash lgbt individuals, it isn't the only part and leaves too much gray area.

And on a bit of a side note, I really beleive it should be extended into a simple "respect everyone" rule. Because it just seems okay to alot of people to bash cisgendeded individuals and other majority groups out of spite. That's dangerous in a number of ways, but I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 10:50:49 pm »
I think this is great idea! Just so long as everything is reviewed thoroughly and unbiased with things. But aside from that I am with this 100%

And on a bit of a side note, I really beleive it should be extended into a simple "respect everyone" rule. Because it just seems okay to alot of people to bash cisgendeded individuals and other majority groups out of spite. That's dangerous in a number of ways, but I'll leave it at that.
And also this needs to be in play at all times too
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 10:52:59 pm by Honey Nightingale »

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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 11:03:07 pm »
And on a bit of a side note, I really beleive it should be extended into a simple "respect everyone" rule. Because it just seems okay to alot of people to bash cisgendeded individuals and other majority groups out of spite. That's dangerous in a number of ways, but I'll leave it at that.
I agree with a respect everyone rule, but it depends on what's considered bashing majority groups. Its not okay for people to go out of their way and personally attack someone who is part of a majority group with a slur etc, but saying "some of x majority group does y oppressive behavior to z minority group" isn't bashing, along with saying things about majority groups doesn't cause damage to majority groups, because they're majority groups and won't be affected in society nor on a systemic level. It needs to be checked on a contextual basis.
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2015, 11:23:18 pm »
-snip-
I agree with a respect everyone rule, but it depends on what's considered bashing majority groups. Its not okay for people to go out of their way and personally attack someone who is part of a majority group with a slur etc, but saying "some of x majority group does y oppressive behavior to z minority group" isn't bashing, along with saying things about majority groups doesn't cause damage to majority groups, because they're majority groups and won't be affected in society nor on a systemic level. It needs to be checked on a contextual basis.

The first part is fair, stating problems in any group, minority or majority, isnt really bashing, its simply criticism, but I'm not sure what you mean about the second part there and what you mean by things that don't cause damage to majority groups.
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2015, 11:34:01 pm »
-snip-
I agree with a respect everyone rule, but it depends on what's considered bashing majority groups. Its not okay for people to go out of their way and personally attack someone who is part of a majority group with a slur etc, but saying "some of x majority group does y oppressive behavior to z minority group" isn't bashing, along with saying things about majority groups doesn't cause damage to majority groups, because they're majority groups and won't be affected in society nor on a systemic level. It needs to be checked on a contextual basis.


The first part is fair, stating problems in any group, minority or majority, isnt really bashing, its simply criticism, but I'm not sure what you mean about the second part there and what you mean by things that don't cause damage to majority groups.
In general, bashing or not bashing, saying things about majority group has no effect on society, because they hold the power as theyre majority groups. Someone writing an article about a black women stating her opinion but turns the article into "x person is having a tirade" is reaffirming the angry black woman stereotype thats already conditioned into people's minds. Someone who thinks white people are ugly and says that white people are ugly, their statement will have no effect on society or to the majority group if its in a society where that group holds power. So in the US and other western countries it would mean nothing at all for a minority to say white people are ugly even if its false and negative because white is the standard of beauty and everyone is conditioned to believe so through tv and other media. A majority group saying something negative about a minority group will have an effect and cause damage because its reaffirming the stereotypes that many already believe that allign with the system thats in place.
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Added on: for the example of "some of x majority group does y oppressive behavior to z minority group" saying white people assume i work at [insert popular department store] even though i cleary look like im shopping there purse + headphones and all no name tag or uniform isnt bashing, because it is a common microagression that occurs on people of color(happens to my mother and shes a latina plus a LOT of these stories from poc of microagressions like these occuring which is sad)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 11:40:51 pm by Angelnypr »
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 11:43:25 pm »




Quote
In general, bashing or not bashing, saying things about majority group has no effect on society, because they hold the power as theyre majority groups. Someone writing an article about a black women stating her opinion but turns the article into "x person is having a tirade" is reaffirming the angry black woman stereotype thats already conditioned into people's minds. Someone who thinks white people are ugly and says that white people are ugly, their statement will have no effect on society or to the majority group if its in a society where that group holds power. So in the US and other western countries it would mean nothing at all for a minority to say white people are ugly even if its false and negative because white is the standard of beauty and everyone is conditioned to believe so through tv and other media. A majority group saying something negative about a minority group will have an effect and cause damage because its reaffirming the stereotypes that many already believe that allign with the system thats in place.

Well im speaking of more of a smaller community like this forum, not on macrosocietal level. More of a person-to-person thing really that can make people just feel unwelcome. Plus this forum has a higher concentration of lgbt so statements like that will have a higher effect.
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2015, 12:14:09 am »




Quote
In general, bashing or not bashing, saying things about majority group has no effect on society, because they hold the power as theyre majority groups. Someone writing an article about a black women stating her opinion but turns the article into "x person is having a tirade" is reaffirming the angry black woman stereotype thats already conditioned into people's minds. Someone who thinks white people are ugly and says that white people are ugly, their statement will have no effect on society or to the majority group if its in a society where that group holds power. So in the US and other western countries it would mean nothing at all for a minority to say white people are ugly even if its false and negative because white is the standard of beauty and everyone is conditioned to believe so through tv and other media. A majority group saying something negative about a minority group will have an effect and cause damage because its reaffirming the stereotypes that many already believe that allign with the system thats in place.

Well im speaking of more of a smaller community like this forum, not on macrosocietal level. More of a person-to-person thing really that can make people just feel unwelcome. Plus this forum has a higher concentration of lgbt so statements like that will have a higher effect.
I know, I'm just explaining the statement like you asked :P
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 07:21:15 am »




Quote
In general, bashing or not bashing, saying things about majority group has no effect on society, because they hold the power as theyre majority groups. Someone writing an article about a black women stating her opinion but turns the article into "x person is having a tirade" is reaffirming the angry black woman stereotype thats already conditioned into people's minds. Someone who thinks white people are ugly and says that white people are ugly, their statement will have no effect on society or to the majority group if its in a society where that group holds power. So in the US and other western countries it would mean nothing at all for a minority to say white people are ugly even if its false and negative because white is the standard of beauty and everyone is conditioned to believe so through tv and other media. A majority group saying something negative about a minority group will have an effect and cause damage because its reaffirming the stereotypes that many already believe that allign with the system thats in place.

Well im speaking of more of a smaller community like this forum, not on macrosocietal level. More of a person-to-person thing really that can make people just feel unwelcome. Plus this forum has a higher concentration of lgbt so statements like that will have a higher effect.
I know, I'm just explaining the statement like you asked :P

Alrighty. My point was it should be clear that everyone should be treated with the same respect as anyone else.
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 08:49:45 am »
Thanks for your input,  guys :lion:

While we agree with a respect everyone rule, we are choosing to focus on statements about minorities with this. In building a safe space, degrading remarks about lgbt people are more harmful than remarks about cis people, for example. Nobody should be bashing anyone, but as Angel said, everything will be taken into context. Plus, in my experience both here and elsewhere, actual bashing of majorities isnt common. Usually it's something like "cis people are being rude", which will still be allowed here. While these cases will still be evaluated (especially when it comes to flaming and the likes), we will not be enforcing a blanket rule at this time. Its about time we sided with the minorities here.
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2015, 11:53:42 am »
I'm all in agreement with criticism being allowed as long as its respectful and most importantly it works both ways. I really don't think people should get a free pass for things like that because of a minority status. It just seems rather unfair to those people :/
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 11:57:43 am by Peanut B. Rawket »
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2015, 12:43:38 pm »
I'm all in agreement with criticism being allowed as long as its respectful and most importantly it works both ways. I really don't think people should get a free pass for things like that because of a minority status. It just seems rather unfair to those people :/

I understand, but can you define "things like that"? I dont think we've ever let someone off JUST because of their status,and we're not about to start.

If someone is harassing you, regardless of where you both fall, it should be reported and will be addressed. All we're trying to make clear is the fact that context is taken into account, as it always has been.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 12:47:36 pm by Panda »
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2015, 12:54:21 pm »
You mainly seem to be saying anyone who is a minority is exempt from any criticism. May have misread it but thats what I am hearing
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2015, 02:07:27 pm »
We are not protecting people who are minorities from criticism of their character or actions, we are protecting minorities from the "criticism" of who they are.

Character and actions can be seen as; they make a questionable choice and have asked for advice on it, or they are being a generally toxic person.
Who they are would be how they identify, whether that is trans, non-hetero, otherkin, or whatever else. Because as Panda mentioned,
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2015, 03:58:07 pm »
I think it also should be mentioned that there is a difference between direct criticism/hate and misinformation/ misunderstanding. Some people just arent informed well enough in certain aspect. I think this should be enhanced to the point, where if person keeps disagreeing with the facts, being toxic, then that person becomes viable to be one-striked etc (after said warning of course).

One more thing. Sometimes person on the forum can perform negative actions outside of the forums, which would influence people on this forum too. There was case like this once, which I wont talk about publicly.

I think that if identity of someone is proven, then evidence of someone's behaviour outside the site could be used too. Im not sure about that, since someone could also falsify someone's actions outside of FT


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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2015, 04:03:35 pm »
There is definitely a lot of grey area in this policy. I have to say I agree with Peanut's statement that it needs to work both ways (not that I think it won't, but I do think it needs to be stated in the text of the policy). I think it should be made clear that remarks about anyone, not just LGBT+ or racial minorities, will be covered under the umbrella. Right now, the text as written includes the "et cetera" catch-all, but the only specific instances mentioned are a) discrimination against LGBT+, b) discrimination against racial minorities, and c) discrimination against religion. It's difficult to explain in this format without repeating myself several times, but I would love to chat with you guys about it over Skype or something like that.

Also, I think it needs to apply to replies as well. For instance, if someone says something derogatory about bisexual people, and I reply with "Well, you're a f*****g a*****e," I should get banned as well. I think that should also be included in the policy text.

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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2015, 04:05:44 pm »
We are not protecting people who are minorities from criticism of their character or actions, we are protecting minorities from the "criticism" of who they are.

Character and actions can be seen as; they make a questionable choice and have asked for advice on it, or they are being a generally toxic person.
Who they are would be how they identify, whether that is trans, non-hetero, otherkin, or whatever else. Because as Panda mentioned,
  • Many LGBT+ individuals already face religious persecution in their real life--they don't need it on the internet as well.

I can agree in a way. But if you're doing that, Why is it still okay to "criticize" those who are in a majority group for who they are as well? This is a very dangerous double standard to keep hold of. It can cause, as much as the phrase is hated, a "special snowflake" effect where people change their identities because they feel they want to be accepted in the community more. It also creates an aura of hostility toward those in said majority groups. Even if it doesn't affect the group as a whole, that still doesn't mean it's okay to do.
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2015, 04:38:22 pm »
A one-strike system I'd not be opposed to. I voted "no" anyway.

Time and time again in the feminism thread I've pointed out that turning the scales upside down so that all you've done is put the opposite side in power doesn't change the fundamental inequality on the playing field - only the seats that the players are occupying.

If you say "majority people" or "religious people" have too much power elsewhere so you're going to compensate that by giving LGBT people a free pass to do things that cis people can't do here... you're not building a community for everyone. You're building a community for LGBT people.

To be clear:
While we agree with a respect everyone rule, we are choosing to focus on statements about minorities with this. In building a safe space, degrading remarks about lgbt people are more harmful than remarks about cis people, for example.

Yes, cis people sit in a place of privilege beyond us because it's the normalized standard for a person in, really, most societies that I'm aware of... but I think that the way it comes across - not only to me but to one or two others as I read this thread - is that you're writing LGBT people a blank check to say rather bitter-spirited things about non-LGBT people without fear of them talking back. That either needs clarified or corrected.

Nobody should be bashing anyone, but as Angel said, everything will be taken into context. Plus, in my experience both here and elsewhere, actual bashing of majorities isnt common. Usually it's something like "cis people are being rude", which will still be allowed here. While these cases will still be evaluated (especially when it comes to flaming and the likes), we will not be enforcing a blanket rule at this time. Its about time we sided with the minorities here.

This is a place for young furries. All young furries. While the move seems well-intentioned I think if you want to make it a place where bashing can't go on it needs to be, indeed, unilateral. If cis people feel like they're made into fair-game targets, it's reasonable to expect them to be pushed away.



Edit: Clarification of a few pronouns.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 04:40:42 pm by copb.phoenix »
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2015, 04:43:00 pm »
The rules saying that you can't just go off and call someone a fucking asshole are already in the sites rules. All this strike system is being used for is to allow for an extra layer of protection for the minority groups who are regularly persecuted and who face hate because of how they identify. As for the "cis hate", that is a much more rare occurrence than someone saying something on the lines of "You're going to hell, because you're gay." Or even misgendering someone by using their incorrect pronouns regularly. So each of those cases will be reviewed individually as well, if they do happen.
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Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2015, 04:50:04 pm »
But it still doesn't make sense to me that it isn't being with everyone, even though 'cis hate' is rare as you say. I'm not sure why the ruling has to be explicitly for minorities when it's just so much simpler to say " Hey don't be a dick to people for what they are. "
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