Author Topic: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts [Updated 4/20]  (Read 5554 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Proto

  • YES
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3485
  • Candies: 224
  • Wonder what happens if you do the when but not if
    • DeviantArt - TinyProto
    • FurAffinity - tinyproto
  • Fursona Species: Gray Fox
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2015, 01:59:58 pm »
I gotta admit that at some point I may have had the same concerns as some of the members who have posted in this topic, but it is also true that we're not going to make things unfair for the majority groups. The staff will still try and solve the problems that arise on the forum, and seeing as we all come from very different backgrounds, we can have more than one point of view if it were necessary for a single problem.

The only different thing is that we will make sure that those who face oppression in RL don't have to face it here too. Example: We all know how much stigma there is against furries, so obviously we're going to make this place safe for all teenage furries, but then the furry community has all kinds of people in it and there's bound to be problems that come from the differences of the members of the furry fandom, which is why we want to make extra sure that those who have it even worse than the furry who only gets crap for being a furry to have a safe place where they won't be called out for being the way they are.

Regardless of everything above, if a member is just being offensive to others then we're going to take action against them, as others have said before me, no matter what.

What if a person of a certain race makes a negative comment about their race? Ex: "I hate being x because the other x's do y making things harder for us"? Would that work or would that be a big no

Hmm, that's a good question. I'm inclined to say we would go by the "if nobody reports it, then it stays" rule, but I'm not sure.
What do you guys suggest?

I'd say that as long as it's not too offensive and, once again, depending on the context that is being used here, that these could be allowed to stay. However, I do believe that it's also possible to go over the top, even if it's your own race the one you're commenting about, and it might put off other people of said race.

Edit: There's the "depending on the context" line again
  • Flag - mexico
  • Site Donor
  • Pronouns: He/Him/His
~~Heart completely belongs to Red Velvet~~
Taking on commissions!
 Here are my prices

"Have you gone yoicks?!" - Soren, Guardians of Ga'hoole

Online Mystic

  • Candy Witch
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 11172
  • Candies: 817
  • I'll cast a spell on you
    • FurAffinity - MysticSolstice
    • Twitter - MysticSolstice
  • Fursona Species: Cow
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2015, 02:14:59 pm »
What if a person of a certain race makes a negative comment about their race? Ex: "I hate being x because the other x's do y making things harder for us"? Would that work or would that be a big no

Hmm, that's a good question. I'm inclined to say we would go by the "if nobody reports it, then it stays" rule, but I'm not sure.
What do you guys suggest?
The problem with such posts is that members with the same identity may have different opinions about what's offensive. One person may be ok with what's being said and think of it as harmless or a joke while someone else who has an identical identity might find what was said offensive and hurtful regardless of who it came from. I think if its offensive it should still be taken down. If its just a rant/discussion then it should be ok as long as it's worded respectfully
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 02:31:30 pm by MysticSolstice »
  • Award - Beta Tester
  • Flag - canada
  • Site Donor
  • Pride Flag - gay
  • Pronouns: She/Her/Hers
  • Award - Graphic Artist

| ToyHou.se | ThisCrush | Q&A |
Icon by CupcakeCreature | Signature by SpazzCraft

Offline The hypnotized badger

  • Green Level
  • *
  • Posts: 661
  • Candies: 40
  • Oh for the love of Avril Lavigne...
    • FurAffinity - skunkmaster111
  • Fursona Species: badger
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2015, 02:21:51 pm »
I think that one strike is way too small and because people can easily abuse that system and different perspectives can be different because when something is offensive to someone, you should talk it out instead of banning them for hurting feelings when they might not have wanted too, some people are more sensitive than others. And comming from a gay person struggling with how to handle it religiously like me, I say religious view points should not count as offense because a lot of times they really are said respectfully and it is hard for me to find any middle ground to post here because im both gay and christian
  • Pronouns: he/him/his but doesnt mind if you say ze, zer, or zers
For the love of Avril Lavigne...!

Offline Angelnypr

  • Pink Rican Gay Tayra/Hutia
  • Orange Level
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Candies: 22
  • League of Legends and Female Rappers 8)
  • Fursona Species: Tayra/Hutia Hybrid
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2015, 02:36:31 pm »
What if a person of a certain race makes a negative comment about their race? Ex: "I hate being x because the other x's do y making things harder for us"? Would that work or would that be a big no

Hmm, that's a good question. I'm inclined to say we would go by the "if nobody reports it, then it stays" rule, but I'm not sure.
What do you guys suggest?
The problem with such posts is that members with the same identity may have different opinions about what's offensive. One person may be ok with what's being said and think of it as harmless or a joke while someone else who has an identical identity might find what was said offensive and hurtful regardless of who it came from. I think if its offensive it should still be taken down. If its just a rant/discussion then it should be ok as long as it's worded respectfully
Because some of a marginalized group finds it ok, doesn't mean its ok. There are women who still slut-shame and make misogynistic commentary, there are PoC that use rehashed stereotypes because of their self-hate and seeking for white validation, there are homosexuals who spread homophobia and are caught in heteronormavity. Plenty of minorities self-hate and spread the same stereotypes that the oppressors put onto them. Its still offensive even if ONE of them says its ok and its just as damaging.
  • Pronouns: He/Him/His

"No Tea. No Shade"

Offline guapo

  • we can start and finish wars
  • Blue Level
  • *
  • Posts: 1906
  • Candies: 289
  • we're what killed the dinosaurs
    • DeviantArt - teethpunk
    • FurAffinity - benzos
    • Twitter - mcfreaking
    • nice aesthetic!
  • Fursona Species: conepatus semistriatus
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2015, 03:00:47 pm »
I say religious view points should not count as offense because a lot of times they really are said respectfully

a big issue here is that people use religion as an excuse to say these things.
i don't care what your bible or teachings say, disrespecting mogai identities (no matter how 'respectfully' put) is rude and should be punished. beliefs should not be protected when they infringe on the rights or safety of others.

--

also, i'm agreeing with everything angelnypr said. racism within a poc group is still racism. :-/ transphobia within a trans group is still transphobic (looking @ yall, tucute and truscum) etc etc

too many poc attack our community for white validation. y'all are blaming other people in your community so white people like you more. it's like when white people on tumblr and all those sites make white people jokes and are like "sorry for being white :(". that's annoying as hell and problematic.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 05:52:25 pm by Lance »
  • Award - Beta Tester
  • Pronouns: they/them/their
the dinosaurs choked on the dust
they died because we say they must

maybe i'll come back later
see ya

Offline copb.phoenix

  • So long and goodnight
  • Purple Level
  • *
  • Posts: 2229
  • Candies: 114
    • FurAffinity - copb_phoenix
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2015, 05:14:11 pm »
The dialogue is important. So even if I've made a mess of things again at least that much grew from it.

Being said, this sense of - well, here, I only have to go one post to yank the -

i don't care what your bible or teachings say, disrespecting mogai identities (no matter how 'respectfully' put) is rude and should be punished. beliefs should not be protected when they infringe on the rights or safety of others.

When you read this (or reread this), stop, take a deep breath, and ask "what if I'm the person I'm saying this treatment needs to be put against?" To me it reads like "yeah, if they're not [whatever marginalized group particular user is part of], let's kick 'em around!"

And let's start calling it - someone saying that their religious faith makes them can't even doesn't infringe on your rights. If anything, the right-respecting version is to acknowledge that there is no way, really, to sort that one out and both sides should just agree to part ways. Freedom exists for everyone so long as we enable it to exist even for those we don't like.

If someone started saying something like "You're gay! You're going to hell!"* that's one thing, and I think we could accurately call that homophobia with a religious drive. I'd never defend that. Yet, given this, it's a complex situation in multiple religions - with identities, nationalities, sexualities, and so forth. I can agree with the need to not have people leverage that as an excuse to go on bashing sprees; I can't agree with the chilling effect on approaching an aspect that many people have to face an reconcile.

And there's respectful ways to handle it. It's a fact that there are laws in Leviticus, that Mohammed had some bitter words to say, that Buddha - well, actually, Buddha was pretty chilled out... But these are facts. There must be some way given to address the nature of that content as long as given to relatively clear non-aggression.

And a thousand other myriad branching arguments grown from concerns.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 05:59:11 pm by Lance »
  • Flag - turing
  • Award - Beta Tester
Isn't this where...?

Offline Spoopy ★ Panda

  • Not a duck!
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Candies: 586
  • :*・°☆.。.:*・°☆.。
    • DeviantArt - cocoapanda
    • FurAffinity - cocoapanda
  • Fursona Species: Platypus
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2015, 05:52:54 pm »
This is not the place to throw around personl attacks,  and it sure as heck isn't the place to degrade religious beliefs. Knock it off.
  • Award - Beta Tester
  • Pride Flag - asexual
  • Pronouns: They/them
  • Award - Graphic Artist

Offline Voltz

  • Blue Level
  • *
  • Posts: 1082
  • Candies: 306
  • Fursona Species: -
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2015, 06:17:59 pm »
I'm mostly agreeing with this new system, but I feel like the exact rules should be spelled out for others to read. Heck maybe a FAQ would help? You know, to clear up confusion?

Also, certain members of this forum are harassing a close friend of mine, heck in this thread even. I'm not going to say names unless asked by an admin to, but to the people doing it, knock it off. You're not 12 years old (I hope)
  • Pronouns: -

Offline The Woolly One

  • Horns up here.
  • Sitewide Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4018
  • Candies: 304
  • Hoofies down here.
    • FurAffinity - TinyBabyHooves
    • Twitter - @SheepScientist
  • Fursona Species: Sheep (Finn Dorset)
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2015, 06:54:14 pm »
Yes, I'm aware that the way we've introduced this could have been a bit clearer. It's a hard topic to introduce since it involves discussing why vulnerable groups of people require this support without people thinking that we're giving specific groups a "higher social status" within the community. Nothing is going to change as far as discrimination goes; we'll never allow anybody to bash others for things like their race, religion or sexuality and we'll crack down on that content. All we're just introducing a new system that stops bigots from entering the community and attacking people without concern because they can cite their religion or cultural background. It essentially prioritizes the well-being of vulnerable teens over bigoted people's privilege.

I used to believe that members should be able to freely discuss their religious opinions of minority groups in hopes that people with bigoted opinions could learn from it, and become more open-minded and tolerant of others. But it seldom works out that way. What happens is that these people will attack a group of people (e.g. gay people) and get away with it for months because they cite that their religion supports their behaviour. It doesn't make for a good safe space and it ultimately causes disharmony. But this still doesn't mean that we won't do anything in the reverse scenario. However, it just means we accept that they're not on the same level as each other and we would attempt to contextualize the latter. Minority groups more experience harassment, bullying and discrimination than priveledged groups. So venting frustration and criticizing privilege is fine; unprovoked attacks made against people aren't.

The new policy hasn't been perfected. Ultimately, I think we would have to take into account whether or not the offenders of the policy are young and immature users that have been provoked by others or are unaware that their behaviour is offensive. But the strike system should help stop bigots from oppressing vulnerable individuals. I just don't think it's realistic anymore to expect intolerant people to learn the errors of their ways as opposed to subtly attacking a bunch of people and getting away with it for months without receiving any serious penalty.
  • Flag - england
  • Site Donor
  • Pronouns: He/Him/His

Offline Skyy

  • Green Level
  • *
  • Posts: 890
  • Candies: 107
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2015, 07:20:29 pm »
Most of the counterargument I've read says that 'this space shouldn't give lgbt members an upper hand'.  See, the problem with this logic is that in the real world, non lgbt people have the upper hand everywhere.  A lot of people come to this forum for the feeling of being safe from homophobic/transphobic etc people.  I left this site because didn't feel safe anymore.  This just felt like any old forum, where homophobic talk is allowed and the staff doesn't do anything about it unless you really make an effort to contact them, at which point it's a damn struggle to get them to do anything.  I probably sound like I'm overreacting quite a bit, but in reality, having to deal with people gives you a bit of perspective. It took the staff a month to ban him, at which point it was only a temp ban.  It took about another week of homophobic acts before the staff FINALLY decided to permban him.  On a forum that is supposed to protect people, especially lgbt people, that shit should've been taken care of immediately, and the fact that the excuse was that 'we need to be told that you have a problem' made it seem like they weren't even active on the site.  It was evident by the amount of anger that people like mystic, calyx, and I for example felt trying to argue our point on a stubborn bigot.  I'm sure the staff remembers the three pages of homophobic comments that were removed.  Anyways, rambling at this point.  Anyone who's displays homophobic behavior should get instantly permabanned imo.  But since when have the staff listened to me?   

[Admin Edit: I understand that you have problems with the way things have been handled, but this isn't an appropriate place to call people out. Even if they've already been banned.]
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 11:22:08 am by Daimhín »

Offline End

  • Purple Level
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
  • Candies: 406
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2015, 07:31:58 pm »
People, honestly it's still too early to say what's going to happen or how it's going to work. Let's just all stop arguing and let it happen, right now it's just an idea that is still in the works that none of us know how it will turn out to be. Let the staff apply this system to the site for a while before making anymore harsh judgments on it.

Things really won't change all that much, if not at all, and if it does? Well that's okay because we will ask figure out how to fix it maturely 

Because right now we just seem to be going in circles

Offline Spoopy ★ Panda

  • Not a duck!
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Candies: 586
  • :*・°☆.。.:*・°☆.。
    • DeviantArt - cocoapanda
    • FurAffinity - cocoapanda
  • Fursona Species: Platypus
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2015, 07:32:18 pm »
The text in the intro is pretty much verbatim what we would be following (I was considering just linking to this thread in the rules if this passes), can you be more specific about what you'd like to see?
  • Award - Beta Tester
  • Pride Flag - asexual
  • Pronouns: They/them
  • Award - Graphic Artist

Offline STERLING

  • Durr Dammit
  • Blue Level
  • *
  • Posts: 1664
  • Candies: 177
  • STERLING
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2015, 07:15:41 am »
People, honestly it's still too early to say what's going to happen or how it's going to work. Let's just all stop arguing and let it happen, right now it's just an idea that is still in the works that none of us know how it will turn out to be. Let the staff apply this system to the site for a while before making anymore harsh judgments on it.

Things really won't change all that much, if not at all, and if it does? Well that's okay because we will ask figure out how to fix it maturely 

Because right now we just seem to be going in circles

^^^This.
We can't know until we try guys. And we are trying to make this site better as ya'll requested. Bear with us. It's worth a try.
We're not trying to hurt anyone in the process.

Offline Spoopy ★ Panda

  • Not a duck!
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Candies: 586
  • :*・°☆.。.:*・°☆.。
    • DeviantArt - cocoapanda
    • FurAffinity - cocoapanda
  • Fursona Species: Platypus
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2015, 08:57:51 am »
Also, regarding posts I should have addressed earlier:
I am very disappointed if people are harassing others because of what they've posted here. We put this up for feedback, so EVERYONE can share their opinion, not just a select few. 

Please remember that we have members from all different walks of life on here. Someone's experiences may not match your own and cause them to see things differently. Sometimes people aren't educated on certain things,  and that's okay, that's what we're here for. Part of being a safe space is also about education and I am so happy that, for the most part, you guys help each other both in that regard and everywhere else.

But harassment is never the answer. Attacking will never accomplish the same goal that respectfully educating will. If someone doesnt agree with you, either ignore it or, if their views are problematic, explain to them why. Apparently this policy makes some of you nervous, whether from things that have happened in your life or whatever else, and that's okay. I am very grateful that people are sharing their experiences and opinions, some of them personal, and NOBODY deserves to be attacked for them.

I am ashamed to learn that this is what this thread is bringing. Please, be kind to one another. This is a new thing for all of us. I dont want to see any more posts about people being harassed.
  • Award - Beta Tester
  • Pride Flag - asexual
  • Pronouns: They/them
  • Award - Graphic Artist

Offline STERLING

  • Durr Dammit
  • Blue Level
  • *
  • Posts: 1664
  • Candies: 177
  • STERLING
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2015, 11:25:03 am »
I also find it sad that everyone seems to be concerned about hateful posts and such, but it's VERY hypocritical to go around and harass people.
Cmon guys, if you all say you want this site to be safe and peaceful but when you're turning around and causing distress for others, it's not good at all.

Offline Goat angst

  • Your crazy ruler
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2775
  • Candies: 114
  • Mmmmm goat angst~
    • DeviantArt - crazymonkey45
    • FurAffinity - crazywolf45
  • Fursona Species: Crazy and spooky goat angst
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #75 on: September 26, 2015, 11:47:38 am »
We really need to come together more rather then claw at each others throats. I know there's more to this then that. Like panda has stated please be kind to each other.
  • Award - Beta Tester


Tacos are the best kind of weapons!

Offline End

  • Purple Level
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
  • Candies: 406
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #76 on: September 26, 2015, 11:41:33 pm »
I also find it sad that everyone seems to be concerned about hateful posts and such, but it's VERY hypocritical to go around and harass people.
Cmon guys, if you all say you want this site to be safe and peaceful but when you're turning around and causing distress for others, it's not good at all.
^^^
This is a very good point. Practice what you preach and to be aware that there are more than one side to every story. On the internet things can be horribly misinterpreted and taken in ways others haven't thought possible. So instead of going and harassing a person how about we ask them what they mean first, before jumping to conclusions?

This will be all I'll add and hope that it doesn't start a flame war in anyway

Offline Spoopy ★ Panda

  • Not a duck!
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Candies: 586
  • :*・°☆.。.:*・°☆.。
    • DeviantArt - cocoapanda
    • FurAffinity - cocoapanda
  • Fursona Species: Platypus
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2015, 12:02:25 pm »
Just to clear up any confusion:
You ARE allowed to remain neutral on subjects like identity, provided you don't post offensive reasoning with it.
For example:
"I don't care what someone identifies as because it doesn't affect me" is OK
"I don't care what someone identifies as but the bible says its wrong" is NOT okay

Again, many members face persecution in real-life because of religion, etc., so we are trying to keep that away from here. We're not asking you to all be strong advocates, just asking you to always be respectful of others.
  • Award - Beta Tester
  • Pride Flag - asexual
  • Pronouns: They/them
  • Award - Graphic Artist

Offline Spoopy ★ Panda

  • Not a duck!
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Candies: 586
  • :*・°☆.。.:*・°☆.。
    • DeviantArt - cocoapanda
    • FurAffinity - cocoapanda
  • Fursona Species: Platypus
Re: Poll: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2016, 04:44:02 pm »
Bumping this, since apparently people need to be reminded:

This is a safe space, especially for LGBT people. This means that the comfort of minorities is put above the comfort of the majority. We do NOT believe in "everyone having a right to post their opinion" when that opinion is hurtful or harmful to LGBT groups; and that right will NOT be protected.

There are plenty of other places where you can freely debate topics such as the bathroom "controversy." This is not one of those places.
  • Award - Beta Tester
  • Pride Flag - asexual
  • Pronouns: They/them
  • Award - Graphic Artist

Offline Spoopy ★ Panda

  • Not a duck!
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Candies: 586
  • :*・°☆.。.:*・°☆.。
    • DeviantArt - cocoapanda
    • FurAffinity - cocoapanda
  • Fursona Species: Platypus
Re: One-Strike System for Intolerant Posts [Updated 4/20]
« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2017, 12:00:20 pm »
NEW: All discussion of Furry Raiders, "alt right", and general pro-Nazi speak falls under this rule.
  • Award - Beta Tester
  • Pride Flag - asexual
  • Pronouns: They/them
  • Award - Graphic Artist