Author Topic: A Letter to the Forum  (Read 2314 times)

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Offline Noise

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2015, 08:20:07 pm »
I'm sorry krowdon but as the looks of it I'm the only one who made a call out post. I'll be more mature on this discussion
As to you night this is none of your concern, I never saw you apologize to Assan when you were one people in that thread.
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Offline STERLING

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2015, 08:23:53 pm »

[/quote]
However you don't need to be on staff to make others feel safe and keep order on the site.
[/quote]

This is so true you guys.

Offline The Woolly One

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2015, 08:28:56 pm »
^ Thanks for understanding. I wasn't mentioning you in particular when I said no callout posts, I meant generally.

And I agree with Krowdon that transparency is one of the things that needs to be worked on. We've been trying to get people to come to us about their problems for ages. It has improved as of late, but there's still not a lot we're hearing about.

I'm really sorry for everybody involved. I didn't want these arguments to occur. We'll try to be more racially sensitive when these issues crop up again and try to excel better decision making. But I'd still like to remind everyone to come to us about their problems with other users. Whether that's because you think somebody is being really insensitive, they've attacked you off-site or anything else. We've messed up sometimes, but we do try to listen to everyone and do our best to resolve the problem.
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Offline ArtificialSweetener

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2015, 08:32:18 pm »
~snip~

I agree that is a possibility. However, we cannot know who is interested in applying to be staff until applications are open again. While there are a lot of new members I'm sure staff can make the decision about who is qualified if they were to apply. We can't know how that would work out until applications are reopened.
Daimhin said the current staff are very busy sorting certain things out. I would like to see more staff brought on board once they have sorted that all out. I know there has been a lot of contention lately and that accepting new applications is probably not the first thing on their minds.
Although I would still like to see an increase in the amount of staff in the future.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 08:37:21 pm by ArtificialSweetener »
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Offline The Woolly One

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2015, 08:40:57 pm »
~snip~

I agree that is a possibility. However, we cannot know who is interested in applying to be staff until applications are open again. While there are a lot of new members I'm sure staff can make the decision about who is qualified if they were to apply. We can't know how that would work out until applications are reopened.
Daimhin said the current staff are very busy sorting certain things out. I would like to see more staff brought on board once they have sorted that all out. I know there has been a lot of contention lately and that accepting new applications is probably not the first thing on their minds.
I would still like to see an increase in the amount of staff in the future.
Yes, staff transparency, re-writing the staff application thread and creating a guideline relating to harassment and reporting it are some of the stuff we've been working on. I believe we came to the consensus to delay applications until we could invest in that. I am hoping to promote some members and introduce new staff members. We kind of need to with problems like this and with the fact that we've lost a few staff members as of late.

If you're interested in helping staff, feel free to apply when we open again (hopefully soon). Even if you've been rejected before.
You're always welcome to apply if you're interested!
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Offline Crow done

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2015, 08:45:23 pm »
~snip~

I agree that is a possibility. However, we cannot know who is interested in applying to be staff until applications are open again. While there are a lot of new members I'm sure staff can make the decision about who is qualified if they were to apply. We can't know how that would work out until applications are reopened.
Daimhin said the current staff are very busy sorting certain things out. I would like to see more staff brought on board once they have sorted that all out. I know there has been a lot of contention lately and that accepting new applications is probably not the first thing on their minds.
I would still like to see an increase in the amount of staff in the future.
Yes, staff transparency, re-writing the staff application thread and creating a guideline relating to harassment and reporting it are some of the stuff we've been working on. I believe we came to the consensus to delay applications until we could invest in that. I am hoping to promote some members and introduce new staff members. We kind of need to with problems like this and with the fact that we've lost a few staff members as of late.

If you're interested in helping staff, feel free to apply when we open again (hopefully soon). Even if you've been rejected before.
You're always welcome to apply if you're interested!

This must be why my application didn't get a reply. I look forward to see what you guys come up with!! That guideline regarding harassment and reporting should really come in handy.
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Offline Koala123

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2015, 10:18:55 pm »
I feel like the staff of this forum is getting too much blame for not being able to end these flame wars.  These staff members can't be online every day, watching over everything that happened on the site.  If there's so many problems that arise from these flame wars, then maybe we should look upon ourselves. It's not necessarily the moderators/admins' duties to solve flame wars for us if it could easily be handled by the people involved in it.  Instead of spamming the report button and getting mad at the moderators for not being on, we should try to solve the problems ourselves.
                   

Offline Amelia

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2015, 12:01:57 am »
I'm going to start off by saying guys that I'm sorry that I didn't deal with some of the callout posts that occurred  within by boards within a timely fashion. I've been at camp since early Friday afternoon and barely have any down time and when I do its usually no more than 5 minutes.

I agree with what a lot of you were saying. We should have dealt with these situations in a more timely fashion and that's something that the staff will work on. We also need to enforce sticker rules against racist posts (maybe even build it into the one strick system we have for homophobic/transphobic posts).

Another thing to keep in mind is we can't give staff positions to those who don't apply so if you're interested send an app in. We don't know that you're interested until you let us know!

I will write a more lengthy in depth reply to the other concerns tomorrow once I get home from canp
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Offline AlaskaFolf

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2015, 01:35:41 pm »
I can say with some certainty that the underlying issue is what constitutes offensive content. In this particular case, we can all agree that the "n word" thread was particularly offensive to most members, myself included. However, I believe the staff is not to blame. What is to blame however, is the system and the rules. The staff cannot enforce rules that are not clearly defined. There might be some secret rules board that I'm not aware of, but my current understanding is that it's up to the staff's discretion as to how "justice" is carried out. In a situation like this, it's up to an admin/mod has to make a decision based on their own sense of right and wrong.

Again, no one can enforce rules that have not been agreed upon and written down. Anyone in a leadership position can understand this. The staff has a tough job balancing free speech and limiting offensive content. We all need to agree together on a clear cut policy on what constitutes offensive content.

Right now everyone is at each other's throats, and frankly, it's sad.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 01:52:13 pm by AlaskaWolf »
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Offline STERLING

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2015, 02:43:13 pm »
We are currently trying to create new policies for homophobic/racist/etc. posts.
Hopefully we can agree on something soon. We're really trying to make things better and more organized here guys, it just takes a bit of time.

Offline Spoopy ★ Panda

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Re: A Letter to the Forum
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2015, 08:44:17 pm »
Part of the reasons our jobs require so much behind-the-scenes effort is because a lot of things can't be defined. Even if we made a list of everything that could be counted racist ever, there would STILL be gray areas and we would STILL need to discuss things. Plus, the nature of this place makes it hard. Most of you are still learning, impressionable, and a lot of your opinions are due to your upbringing, etc. The site deals with helping members, not immediately punishing them when they say one wrong thing. We will always believe in gentle guidance, and education over shaming and callouts.

If you don't like that mission statement, than I'm not really sure what else to say. There are other sites you can go to that have firm rules and don't give people chances and require little effort on the staff's part other than pressing the ban button 3 seconds after something happens. And consequently, those are also the sites that DON'T allow users to give input and may even ban you for speaking your mind.

So, its a trade off. We value your input, but we can't do everything right all the time. And if you expect us to, or if you expect to agree with our rulings 100% of the time, then unfortunately, it's impossible to convince you otherwise.

Also, regarding the n-word thread specifically: I'm going to bite my pride and say I was afraid to lock it. I was very quick to lock the other one, what I thought was the best idea; but then I quickly got messages that were pretty upsetting, saying I did the wrong thing. So I left the other one unlocked for fear of making the situation worse. Please understand that we have feelings too, make mistakes, and that this specifically was a one-off incident. Every admin was getting many messages all saying different things. It was honestly incredibly confusing figuring out what we were supposed to do.

ETA: Also, we have a whole set of secret staff boards, with several sub-boards, that are extremely active. So we don't just do things on a whim, if that's what you're saying.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 08:52:27 pm by Panda »
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