Author Topic: FT Radio - Ressurection?  (Read 8306 times)

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Offline tibaltfox

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FT Radio - Ressurection?
« on: September 27, 2009, 05:28:26 pm »
Any possibility\thoughts about it coming back, to some degree?
I was just wondering...

I know Furtopia used to (probably still does, not sure) have this system where people could 'sign up' for different time slots and DJ during that time,
I wonder if we got enough people together and gave it a run if it might be fun\if people would listen?

Just throwing it out there.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 08:05:14 pm by tibaltfox »
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Offline Schism

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Re: FT Radio?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2009, 05:30:35 pm »
I would love to do it...but, should the original topic be revived? I don't know, let the mods handle it.

Anyway, yeah, I do want this back. It would be pretty cool.

Offline tibaltfox

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Re: FT Radio?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2009, 05:31:19 pm »
Original topic? Hmph, I did a quick search and didn't really see anything. Odd.
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Offline Schism

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Re: FT Radio?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2009, 06:42:30 pm »
Original topic? Hmph, I did a quick search and didn't really see anything. Odd.

No, I meant like the podcast. How could we do a live radio broadcast? Is there a free service or something?

Offline tibaltfox

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Re: FT Radio?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2009, 06:55:59 pm »
Ah.

Over the ACTUAL radio, hell no. But for internet radio it shouldn't be a big problem. Shoutcast is the standard in that respect, it's free I believe as long as we have a server to run it on (which we do, apparently - this one!)
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Offline Schism

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Re: FT Radio?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2009, 07:01:32 pm »
Ah.

Over the ACTUAL radio, hell no. But for internet radio it shouldn't be a big problem. Shoutcast is the standard in that respect, it's free I believe as long as we have a server to run it on (which we do, apparently - this one!)

Well, if it's free, and easy to do, then I'm certainly in. We need MOAR people, and admin approval. This is about the time that Natasha poofs in here...

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Re: FT Radio?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2009, 08:09:51 pm »
This is about the time that Natasha poofs in here...

*earperks* Hmm?

The original concept for FT Radio was Kit's baby, but since he's resigned from the site, I don't see a problem with someone else picking it up.  As for hosting, that's not a problem, since we have our own server.  Shoutcast is already installed and running here (Lupinia already hosts another furry web radio channel, ZooFonics, and we can easily add a second.  However, live radio is a lot more difficult that it sounds, so I'd recommend doing this as pre-recorded audio, setup with a podcast feed (I soooo hate that term).

The main thing to decide is what sort of show to run.  Talk show?  Music?  Hybrid?  Something else?  If there's music involved, keep in mind that internet radio was the first casualty of the RIAA's copyright war, and this site is hosted in the US with awesome search-engine rankings, so any music would have to be licensed legally, and/or come from within the fandom (or even within FT, we have some musicians here).  One idea would be to primarily run a talk show with a few segments, and take breaks to showcase fandom/community musicians.

Also, length is something to consider.  Most amateur web radio stations/shows attempt to jump straight into the deep end and run 4+ hour shows, or have a perpetual stream running.  Unfortunately, that doesn't work for a niche community like ours; even traditional broadcast radio stations have a hard time filling 24/7 programming, and most of them only run 12 hours of content, repeating the first half of the day later on.  I'd recommend a show of no more than 1 hour, preferably closer to 30 minutes.  Remember, if your show starts out short and grows later on, that makes you look awesome; doing it the other way makes it look full of fail, and is also more difficult.

The biggest thing for an audio show to achieve is sustainability.  Anyone can whip up a 4-hour show once or twice, but doing it on a regular basis for a year or more while still being entertaining is extremely difficult.  Most audio shows that succeed started as half-hour once-a-week podcasts, and grew from there, so I recommend taking that model as a starting point.  And, when you create a segment, make sure it's something you'll be able to keep feeding content into.  For example, video game reviews are good because new games always come out.  Furry-specific game/movie/TV/music reviews, however, tend to flop because there just isn't that much mainstream furry content.  News commentary is a great base for comedy shows, but everyone does it, so it tends to be a little generic.

One idea that came to mind while I was typing this is to encourage FT members to submit their own segments.  I wouldn't recommend relying solely on that, because it's very easy to run out of content, but maybe set aside 10-15 minutes per show to run community-contributed content.  That way, it's easy to create a backlog, and if the person(s) primarily running show are low on material, they can say "This week, we have an extra dose of community-generated content" and look like it was intentional :-)

Anyway, those are some suggestions based on what I think would work best for this.  I'd love to see this start up again, but I also want to see it succeed.  I lack the time to run this sort of thing on my own, but I've been involved with web radio in the past, and I have a good idea of what works, so I'll be happy to lend advice to make this awesome :-)
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Offline tibaltfox

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2009, 08:17:27 pm »
Licensing eh? Ughhhh. What a disaster.
RIAA bez messin' wit everythang ><

That sort of kills it. A lot.
The idea I had was sort of a laissez-faire mixture. A variety. DJ's could sign up and play as they please, and hopefully we'd have a nice mixture of general music, music from the fandom, talk, hybrids, etc. Was hoping to have a fun mix there, were we could create a sort of chart, and if people just wanted to listen in and hear some great tunes they could go to DJ A, but if they wanted commentary and talk and whatnot, they could go to DJ B. So forth and so on.

Also, the thought of a perpetual stream never really was an option in my mind - you're right, we're a niche. Not only would it be difficult, but for many slots, few would be there to listen.

My hope, again, was to have a series of 1-2 hour slots up for grabs - people could sign up to fill them, and they would be moderated to insure some semblance of variety. Some would play music, some would talk, some would do both. But the RIAA's little tissy fits sort of kill all that ><

Community-created content is great, but can only go so far, and can only be so interesting.

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Offline Frenchay

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2009, 09:37:44 pm »
I'd love to help out

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 12:32:48 am »
Licensing eh? Ughhhh. What a disaster.
RIAA bez messin' wit everythang ><

That sort of kills it. A lot.

Personally, I wouldn't normally be so concerned about copyright, but putting music used without permission in a web radio show (especially mainstream music) puts the server at risk of getting shut down.  At the very least, it would get us a Cease & Desist requiring all episodes to be removed, thus ending the show.  And, given how much attention this site already gets from search engines and what-not, I guarantee they'd find out at some point, most likely sooner than later.

However, you don't have to have music to have a good audio show.  There are quite a few furry talk/comedy shows out there, all of which have pretty dedicated audiences.
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Offline copb.phoenix

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 02:28:16 am »
Well, I'm a former web radio host/podcast host. The podcast tanked; the radio show was given up on when all my friends went their own ways. My handle was Phoenix/Furpaw - the Podcast was entitled "That Unnamed Show!" and the Radio Show was entitled "Conspiracies Under Lockdown".

Anyway, I've been debating a lot of things to ask about around Lupinia, and this was one of them. If you find you need someone who knows how to work audio editing software (Weapon of choice = Audacity) or who can talk incoherently and non-stop, hit me up.

Yes, I'm on this like a starved wolf in the icecaps. My college hates live DJ's and I don't have the money/resources to do net radio on my own.

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Offline Varlen

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2009, 08:18:45 pm »
The last person to be central enough to the whole FT community and have the drive to try and get something like this to work was Xalex/Seikia - hell, he came a long way with his last attempt, as far as I know. But, that was a long time ago, and I'm not so sure we'd have the leadership or coordination to pull it off, atleast not right now. I also think that running this whole shebang would come with atleast some measure of official authority, so it would need to be a well organised and structured thing. Music was never really a part of the plan (at least, as far as I saw it) and more similar to what Natasha described - a 30+ minute talkfest trying to cover as much stuff furry; get interviews (via online mike-based programs) with artists and writers within the fandom, and trying to include a more international 'cast' for the podcast, to try and make everyone who would listen involved a little more, and avoid alienating people.

Music should, I reckon, be avoided without expressed permission granted by the musicians who made the song(s) in question - largely for legal reasons [points at Natasha's post].

I think someone needs to come up with a comprehensive scheme for this cast if it's ever to work properly, and try to recruit some members willing and able to contribute to it in some way - techies, know-howers and general helpers, and so on. I would love to see this happen, but after so many failed attempts I'm beginning to doubt it will happen for a long time, if ever at all.

But please, prove me wrong. ^.^
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Offline copb.phoenix

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2009, 08:26:48 pm »
Music should, I reckon, be avoided without expressed permission granted by the musicians who made the song(s) in question - largely for legal reasons [points at Natasha's post].

This. We have a lot of creative people here, many of us from all branches of the mainstream, sidestream and "wait, what's a..?" stream. I'm sure that we could come up with a creative solution to the problem, one good enough not to rile the RIAA or to completely murder ourselves. Natasha is probably right - unless we want to drop a couple G's on licensing, we probably won't have much luck on the angle of mainstream, but there are rather respectable alternatives: Open licensing, calmly asking artists inside the community, things like that.

Hmm... (Ponders his midi synth and soundfont library)

EDIT: Something slightly less redundant, in the vein of what times to run the show:
Natasha should be able to pull the sever request log. While not definitive, it would show the trends in when the most FT users are online, which may be useful for determining when and when not to run the station. However, you'd have to ask her for that.

EDIT3: Actually, Edited for content because I hate seeming like a prude when I'm not in that mood. Thanks for your patience, [words]
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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2009, 08:31:40 pm »
Music should, I reckon, be avoided without expressed permission granted by the musicians who made the song(s) in question - largely for legal reasons [points at Natasha's post].

This. We have a lot of creative people here, many of us from all branches of the mainstream, sidestream and "wait, what's a..?" stream. I'm sure that we could come up with a creative solution to the problem, one good enough not to rile the RIAA or to completely murder ourselves. Natasha is probably right - unless we want to drop a couple G's on licensing, we probably won't have much luck on the angle of mainstream, but there are rather respectable alternatives: Open licensing, calmly asking artists inside the community, things like that.

Hmm... (Ponders his midi synth and soundfont library)
I could supply some music if it's needed.
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Offline tibaltfox

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2009, 08:57:26 pm »
Yeah, I've done some reading, and unless something is openly licensed (a la Creative Commons), we're kind of screwed, thanks to the RIAA's draconian licensing deal (even if we were to play music from Non-RIAA affiliated artists\labels, we'd still have to pay royalties... to the RIAA. How does that make sense?).

So, assuming everyone's still all gung-ho about it, the only way we seem to be able to go is that of community-generated content and talk.

I still hold the worry\idea that community based content can only go so far and be so interesting, but a lot of people here seem to be quite intent on the idea of re initiating some sort of radio show - in which case, assuming we were to do it, I think we should create a large backlog of material - songs we can use, subjects to talk about, people to interview, etc etc. Have a long list to pick and choose from and aggregate our content as needed, rather than doing it on a show-by-show basis.

Make any sense? Just an idea.
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Offline Varlen

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2009, 09:20:46 pm »
The whole thing about music is that even without the IRAA (or whatever they are) many countries can still operate through UN backed laws such as Creative Copyright - so as long as an artist can prove something is theres, then the host of FT (and the people in charge of putting the song into the show) would be responcable for the breach of international copyright laws, and some very bad publicity for the show. And random furry community music would be as random as plucking songs out of the air through sheer musical diversity - which would be as good as it is bad - and probably entirely pointless without an interview (of some description) with the artist who made the song anyway. If they're getting their name a little more out there, then they'd be eager to have a couple of songs (usually one picked by them, one by the cast crew themselves) played during and after the interview (not before, or else people listening won't understand what's going on, especially in a vocal-based interview as we're suggesting we create).

The only music I reckon the cast should bother with - if at all - should be a theme song, if only to be more recognised. Ofcourse, we would have to escape the royalty checks by making it ourselves, and freebies are hard to come by - especially before you want 30 seconds of freebie jingle.

30 minuites of chat time isn't so hard to fill, especially if there is a dedicated team working on the cast. Five minutes talking about a new videogame, five more talking about something furry (let's say fursuits) - five minutes of something random, let's say world news or something, but with a furry twist. We're already half way through the cast. Five-ten more made by guest(s) from FurryTeens.org, or some other website (if there are others involved, or some other furs who just want some attention/to help out), five minutes of random chatter, five minutes about musicians or books or webcomics - something central to the fandom, but not too central to avoid repatition with a previous cast, and then however long for talking about next week, a bit more random idle chatter and signing off. Done. Then, we only need a handful of people working on each segment, and you give a rough outline of the show to the 'casters' who meet online at some pre-aranged time and record the whole thing from seperate points in the world with recording software, someone edits the whole thing and sends the file to Natasha/Lupina, who host the thing, post a link on FT's radio forum and then anyone can download it, anytime of the day. No worrying about streaming it or what time it'll be released for.

This is what I imagine the cast would be like, anything else is being too hopeful for something cobbled together for free/minimal cost and done across the globe by a handful of amatures. Without money, the cast simply won't have any music on, and hoping otherwise would be pointless, in my opinion. It would be nice, yes, but fruitless. Assuming one song could be played each week, sources of decent music would dry up pretty quickly, and varying artistic styles and tastes in music would alienate a lot of potential listeners.
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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2009, 09:52:25 pm »
Yay conversation!  I hope to see this actually launch :-)

Also, while I'm not entirely sure I have the free time to take a highly active role in this (plus, I don't do voice recordings of my own voice), but I have experience in audio engineering, so the final product needs processing/editing, I'm good at it and efficient.

Oh, and an idea I had:  When cons come up, find a way to do "reporting" from the con.  Google Voice is good for that, since it can record from real phones easier than any other method I've seen.

EDIT: Something slightly less redundant, in the vein of what times to run the show:
Natasha should be able to pull the sever request log. While not definitive, it would show the trends in when the most FT users are online, which may be useful for determining when and when not to run the station. However, you'd have to ask her for that.

That's pretty easy, yeah, although with the amount of traffic this site gets, the log files are huge (average of 8mb per day, closer to 12-14mb on weekends).  I've been working on a project to parse the server's log files and calculate stats data, but that project is currently on hold (there's also a complication with its scope, so on an off-topic note, if anyone with an expertise in DB design would like to discuss it privately, I'd welcome the opportunity to bounce ideas).

That said, since this is more likely to be a pre-recorded show than a live broadcast, the question of when to broadcast it is somewhat irrelevant.  We'll just set up a script to make it available at a certain time (like, say, midnight).

...Then, we only need a handful of people working on each segment, and you give a rough outline of the show to the 'casters' who meet online at some pre-aranged time and record the whole thing from seperate points in the world with recording software, someone edits the whole thing and sends the file to Natasha/Lupina, who host the thing, post a link on FT's radio forum and then anyone can download it, anytime of the day. No worrying about streaming it or what time it'll be released for.

Don't rely on me to post this, I'm a flake :-P

Seriously though, whoever is the "keeper of the show" (or plural, if there's more than one) would get an FTP account to the server, and the show can be uploaded that way.  Then, I'll whip up a quickie-script to hide the source of the file, make sure shows can't be downloaded early, and I'll probably make it generate an RSS feed for podcasters too.  That way, the shows can be uploaded in advance, without allowing them to be downloaded before their publish date :-)
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Offline copb.phoenix

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2009, 11:25:38 pm »
That way, the shows can be uploaded in advance, without allowing them to be downloaded before their publish date :-)

Something about the last season of FaB...

Since I know folks don't want to wade through the season, I'll tell you: There towards the end of one of the episodes, Stephen George (voice of "Ness") made a reference to the fact that the episodes were being prerecorded... by saying something vague but time sensitive and then going "Yep... I swear, it can't be prerecorded if I knew that...Yeep." Or, something like that.
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Offline Kixt Norkazz

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2009, 04:32:38 am »
We can host it in Norway. We do not have any bullshit stuff like that. >:D

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Re: FT Radio - Ressurection?
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2009, 04:41:42 am »
We can host it in Norway. We do not have any bullshit stuff like that. >:D

As Varlen pointed out, that still wouldn't take care of all the liability.  Plus, unless you're volunteering to buy a high-quality hosting account capable of supporting a venture like this, it's a moot point anyway.
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